among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

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among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
Hello everybody,
am new to rosegarden and (linux) sound system and using it for understanding music - and thank you for your great free software first.

With my first piece of music http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/music/117-1.mid Beethoven's, Fifth Symphony, I stumbled with the problem:

among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
You can see a screenshot here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qo4yasi3zuwutvr/rosegarden1_not_all_track_sounded.png
You see in the tracks marked that there should be sound but there is non. For example in the 19th track, name Kontrabass (german), there are notes but no loudspeaker icon.

This is how I start rosegarden:
killall timidity;killall qjackctl; killall rosegarden
qjackctl -s &
timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
rosegarden Downloads/117-1.rg&

I use Ubuntu 14.04. Rosegarden:13.06.

Does anybody have a pointer, to hear all tracks at once?
Thanks in advance

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Holger Marzen
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Mario Gummies wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> am new to rosegarden and (linux) sound system and using it for understanding music - and thank you for your great free software first.
>
> With my first piece of music http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/music/117-1.mid Beethoven's, Fifth Symphony, I stumbled with the problem:
>
> among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
> You can see a screenshot here:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qo4yasi3zuwutvr/rosegarden1_not_all_track_sounded.png
> You see in the tracks marked that there should be sound but there is non. For example in the 19th track, name Kontrabass (german), there are notes but no loudspeaker icon.
>
> This is how I start rosegarden:
> killall timidity;killall qjackctl; killall rosegarden
> qjackctl -s &
> timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
> rosegarden Downloads/117-1.rg&
>
> I use Ubuntu 14.04. Rosegarden:13.06.
>
> Does anybody have a pointer, to hear all tracks at once?

I had a similar problem when I used fluidsynth-dssi as synth plugin in
Rosegarden. It was a Limit within fluidsynth-dssi.

I solved it with:
- get fluidsynth-dssi-1.0.0.tar.gz
- Change in fluidsynth-dssi.h
  #define FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT  32

You may run into a similar limit with timidity.

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Lorenzo Sutton
On 07/08/16 14:25, Holger Marzen wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Mario Gummies wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>> am new to rosegarden and (linux) sound system and using it for understanding music - and thank you for your great free software first.
>>
>> With my first piece of music http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/music/117-1.mid Beethoven's, Fifth Symphony, I stumbled with the problem:
>>
>> among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
>> You can see a screenshot here:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qo4yasi3zuwutvr/rosegarden1_not_all_track_sounded.png
>> You see in the tracks marked that there should be sound but there is non. For example in the 19th track, name Kontrabass (german), there are notes but no loudspeaker icon.
>>
>> This is how I start rosegarden:
>> killall timidity;killall qjackctl; killall rosegarden
>> qjackctl -s &
>> timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
>> rosegarden Downloads/117-1.rg&
>>
>> I use Ubuntu 14.04. Rosegarden:13.06.
>>
>> Does anybody have a pointer, to hear all tracks at once?
>
> I had a similar problem when I used fluidsynth-dssi as synth plugin in
> Rosegarden. It was a Limit within fluidsynth-dssi.
>
> I solved it with:
> - get fluidsynth-dssi-1.0.0.tar.gz
> - Change in fluidsynth-dssi.h
>    #define FSD_CHANNEL_COUNT  32
>
> You may run into a similar limit with timidity.

Or alternatively use fluidsynth [1] from the command line specifying a
high enough polyphony e.g.:

fluidsynth yoursoundfonr.sf2 -o synth.polyphony=512

Then connect rosegarden generalmidi output to fluidsynth (through
qjacctl alsa midi connections...)

[1] http://www.fluidsynth.org/

>
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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies

Thanks to both for the advise.
As I said I am really new to it. So I am happy to have something working to begin with.
Tried the fluidsynth way instead of timidity:
>~$ qjackctl -s &
>:~$ fluidsynth -o synth.polyphony=512
>FluidSynth version 1.1.6

>Cannot lock down 82274202 byte memory area (Cannot allocate memory)
>Cannot use real-time scheduling (RR/5)(1: Operation not permitted)
>JackClient::AcquireSelfRealTime error
>Type 'help' for help topics.

>~$ ps ax|grep "timidity\|jack\|rosegarden\|fluid"
> 3339 ?        Ss     1:28 /usr/bin/jackdbus auto
> 5735 ?        SLsl   0:05 /usr/bin/jackd -T -ndefault -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2
> 5748 pts/2    SLl    0:03 qjackctl -s

Result: No sound to be heard.

If you could give me:
-the working command lines series to sound
-and/or explicit step explanation,
 it would be kind for an absolute beginner as I.
Or is it that I should look for the answer outside of rosegarden? Am not sure.
Thanks in advance

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Lorenzo Sutton
Hi,


On 07/08/16 23:53, Mario Gummies wrote:
>
> Thanks to both for the advise.
> As I said I am really new to it. So I am happy to have something working to begin with.
> Tried the fluidsynth way instead of timidity:
>> ~$ qjackctl -s &
>> :~$ fluidsynth -o synth.polyphony=512

Just note that you are not specifying the soundfont to use - fluidsynth
requires a soundfont to be loaded or you will hear no sound ;)
Anyway...

>> FluidSynth version 1.1.6
>
>> Cannot lock down 82274202 byte memory area (Cannot allocate memory)
>> Cannot use real-time scheduling (RR/5)(1: Operation not permitted)
>> JackClient::AcquireSelfRealTime error
>> Type 'help' for help topics.

See here: http://www.jackaudio.org/faq/linux_rt_config.html

This configuration to allow your user (and therefore jack etc.) to use
realrime priority will depend on your distribution..
       
What distribution are you using?

Lorenzo

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Ted Felix-2
In reply to this post by Mario Gummies
On 08/07/2016 08:15 AM, Mario Gummies wrote:
> among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

   MIDI only supports 16 channels.  You'll either need to use more than
one synth instance, or assign some of the tracks to the same channel.
The "Track Parameters" box on the left side allows you to specify which
synth (Device) and channel (Instrument) each track is going to.

Ted.

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

D. Michael McIntyre-3
On 08/08/2016 06:38 PM, Ted Felix wrote:
> On 08/07/2016 08:15 AM, Mario Gummies wrote:
>> among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
>
>     MIDI only supports 16 channels.

Reading back over the thread, I see Ted caught the user's original
problem.  He was using Timidity, rather than a DSSI plugin, and indeed
he probably just ran out of channels and/or had things doubled up or
otherwise not configured in a viable way.

I think using DSSI plugins would get around that limitation, so
everybody else is on a viable track with that thinking.

Another option is to create more than one synth engine with QSynth, with
16 channels per engine.  That's how I roll personally, as I never liked
using large numbers of DSSI plugins and having to configure every
fricking one of them individually.  It just feels so wasteful.
Especially with a separate, separately configured reverb on every one of
them.

But anyway......

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2


09.08.2016, 00:38, "Ted Felix" <[hidden email]>:
> On 08/07/2016 08:15 AM, Mario Gummies wrote:
>>  among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
>
>    MIDI only supports 16 channels. You'll either need to use more than
> one synth instance, or assign some of the tracks to the same channel.
> The "Track Parameters" box on the left side allows you to specify which
> synth (Device) and channel (Instrument) each track is going to.
>
> Ted.
Hi Ted, hi others
thanks for the advises, especially the information of midi 16 channels limitation. I tried to launch to instances of timitdity issuing the command line
timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
 twice, with no positive effect. Is that really the last word for timitdity: 16 instruments out?
I tried as well altering the device/instrument parameters on the GUI, without being able to hear all instruments at once neither.

So I believe in the end  there is no way around fluid whatsitsname, is it?

If someone could help me with ready command lines, or at least say to me, if there is a way to fire up the whole thing up - by command line or not, I would be gladder.

I think I come back here having wrestled fluidsynth as proposed, then I leave the results here. Is not that a case for the FAQ: 19 channels do not play sound?

Bye


>
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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
In reply to this post by D. Michael McIntyre-3


09.08.2016, 00:56, "D. Michael McIntyre" <[hidden email]>:

> On 08/08/2016 06:38 PM, Ted Felix wrote:
>>  On 08/07/2016 08:15 AM, Mario Gummies wrote:
>>>  among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound
>>
>>      MIDI only supports 16 channels.
>
> Reading back over the thread, I see Ted caught the user's original
> problem. He was using Timidity, rather than a DSSI plugin, and indeed
> he probably just ran out of channels and/or had things doubled up or
> otherwise not configured in a viable way.
>
> I think using DSSI plugins would get around that limitation, so
> everybody else is on a viable track with that thinking.
>
> Another option is to create more than one synth engine with QSynth, with
> 16 channels per engine. That's how I roll personally, as I never liked
> using large numbers of DSSI plugins and having to configure every
> fricking one of them individually. It just feels so wasteful.
> Especially with a separate, separately configured reverb on every one of
> them.
Ok, still I have got no idea, but I will follow that path in upcoming time.
>
> But anyway......
I am indeed wondering for a time what you might insinuate with that seven points. Is there a burden, maybe even asking I? Or is there a secret, a puzzle or a threat? May be the music industries society? You keep me curious.

Thanks for all.


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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

D. Michael McIntyre-3
On 08/21/2016 12:03 PM, Mario Gummies wrote:

>> But anyway......
> I am indeed wondering for a time what you might insinuate with that seven points. Is there a burden, maybe even asking I? Or is there a secret, a puzzle or a threat? May be the music industries society? You keep me curious.

Just working 70-80 hours a week getting 3-4 hours of sleep a day.  I am
a shadow of what I once was, and don't know if I'm coming or going.

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
Hi,
hm. Ok, I fear, I went to far and am a little late. Do not like to get a person within such a hopefully not mere economic pressure neither.
Anyway, thanks and respect to your pioneer donation, that is what is rosegarden imho, to the world.
So my best bet on the seven points and personal feel as newbie is something like: what a incredible hack is linux audio!

Regards


21.08.2016, 19:04, "D. Michael McIntyre" <[hidden email]>:

> On 08/21/2016 12:03 PM, Mario Gummies wrote:
>
>>>  But anyway......
>>  I am indeed wondering for a time what you might insinuate with that seven points. Is there a burden, maybe even asking I? Or is there a secret, a puzzle or a threat? May be the music industries society? You keep me curious.
>
> Just working 70-80 hours a week getting 3-4 hours of sleep a day. I am
> a shadow of what I once was, and don't know if I'm coming or going.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre
>
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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Yves Guillemot
In reply to this post by Mario Gummies
Le dimanche 21 août 2016, 17:52:35 Mario Gummies a écrit :
>
> I tried to launch to instances of timitdity issuing the command
> line timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
>  twice, with no positive effect. Is that really the last word for timitdity:
> 16 instruments out?

Timidity starts a default of 4 ports and each port behaves like an instance.
So there is no need to start timidity twice.

In Rosegarden, the ports are visible in the midi devices manager in the studio
(here I see "129:0 Timidity port 0", "129:1 Timidity port 1", etc...) and the
GM bank can be loaded in each of them.

Now, in the "track parameters box", one "device" and one "instrument" can be
assigned to each track.
The "device" is the timidity port and the "instrument" the midi channel.
When the 16 channels of the first device are used, the second device can be
used with the following tracks.

Then, in the "instrument parameters box", a "bank" and a "program" can be
associated to each track (a different program for each track).

I just tried it, using timidity, with 24 midi tracks and 24 different
instruments (i.e. programs) and it works.

Yves


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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
Thanks, thanks,
ports, banks, instruments, devices, tracks, channels, programs

-Excuse me, juggling within the dialogs with it, I am glad when I hear some sound and always frightened that by black magic it disappears.
Thing that I can not even prove to ask for help. Btw is there method for proving your speakers are mute when they should speak?
 And it is not even said, that something could not be wrong with your firmware, hardware or software versions. So you got completely lost.
-Therefore btw I head for a beethoven-for-nobodies-out-of-box-and-on-key functional test of/for rosegarden, what do you think of it? Is there a worry on it?

Yves,
- is there a way you can prove all 24 instruments do noise all together, and not that it seems only like that? Could you take my example midi file of the initial post, so I could verify and learn from it?
- is there a way to document the doings of the configurations: command line scripting would be ideal for communication imho, because of its secondary use of being able to be read by third communicated?
- so given us poor set out to a overall great ui world: could you sketch the dialog lead, by screen shots or a pointer to a tutorial?
- you are suggesting that a jump to non-timidity is not necessary: but you see, I could not carry it to an end. Unfortunately.

Regards and the best to all



21.08.2016, 23:16, "Yves Guillemot" <[hidden email]>:

> Le dimanche 21 août 2016, 17:52:35 Mario Gummies a écrit :
>>  I tried to launch to instances of timitdity issuing the command
>>  line timidity -iA -Oj -B2,8 &
>>   twice, with no positive effect. Is that really the last word for timitdity:
>>  16 instruments out?
>
> Timidity starts a default of 4 ports and each port behaves like an instance.
> So there is no need to start timidity twice.
>
> In Rosegarden, the ports are visible in the midi devices manager in the studio
> (here I see "129:0 Timidity port 0", "129:1 Timidity port 1", etc...) and the
> GM bank can be loaded in each of them.
>
> Now, in the "track parameters box", one "device" and one "instrument" can be
> assigned to each track.
> The "device" is the timidity port and the "instrument" the midi channel.
> When the 16 channels of the first device are used, the second device can be
> used with the following tracks.
>
> Then, in the "instrument parameters box", a "bank" and a "program" can be
> associated to each track (a different program for each track).
>
> I just tried it, using timidity, with 24 midi tracks and 24 different
> instruments (i.e. programs) and it works.
>
> Yves
>
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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Yves Guillemot
Le lundi 22 août 2016, 14:42:05 Mario Gummies a écrit :
> - is there a way you can prove all 24 instruments do noise all together, and
> not that it seems only like that? Could you take my example midi file of
> the initial post, so I could verify and learn from it?

I downloaded the midi file and discovered that only 11 voices are needed.
So it almost works out of the box with any MIDI synthetizer.
I'll try to explain it below.

> - is there a way to
> document the doings of the configurations: command line scripting would be
> ideal for communication imho, because of its secondary use of being able to
> be read by third communicated?

Unfortunately there is currently no scripting language embedded in RG.

> - so given us poor set out to a overall
> great ui world: could you sketch the dialog lead, by screen shots or a
> pointer to a tutorial?
 
You can find some documentation in RG Wiki, but it's frequently outdated or
incomplete.
http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/doc:manual-en#devices_instruments_and_connections



Step 1 - How to set up (I presume timidity is already working):

- Start RG, then load the midi file:
   File -> Import -> Import MIDI File...

- Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
   Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices

- Connect the General Midi Device to a Timidity input:
   1 - Click on "General Midi Device" in the upper left box to select it
(well, it should already be selected as it should be the only one device in
this window).
   2 - Click on a Timidity input in the upper right box.

You should see something like that:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0X3YwMXBvR0JrR0k/view?usp=sharing

The "General MIDI Device" device is now connected to a timidity port.

- Close the Midi Devices manager dialog.

- The setup is finish and you can press the play button to hear the midi file.



Step 2 - How the MIDI instruments (or "programs") are mapped to the
tracks:

Here is a snapshot of the main window:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0OTU3S0wzNngyZVk/view?usp=sharing

and a diagram showing the relations between devices, instruments, banks and
programs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0RlVHa0F4bFBOZ00/view?usp=sharing

To click on the name in front of a track in the main window selects this
track.
Once the track is selected, we can see the associated Midi device (here
"General MIDI Device") in the Track Parameters box.
The instrument name and its number are visible under the Midi device name.
The instruments in the same MIDI device can't be more than 16.

This instrument is an element in the list of the instruments used in the
composition.

The bank and program in the Instrument Parameters box show what sound this
logical instrument gives. In the main window snapshot, the track #6 is using
the program "Piccolo" which has  number 73 in the "General MIDI" bank.

Successively looking all the tracks, we see that:
   - Track 1 is not used
   - Tracks 2 and 3 have the same instruments (75. Recorder)
   - Tracks 4 and 5 have the same instrument (70. English Horn)
   - Tracks 6 and 7 have the same instrument (73. Piccolo)
etc...

Eventually, instruments beeing shared between tracks, there are 19 tracks, but
only 11 instruments used.
As 11 < 16, only one MIDI device is needed (and using more than one Timidity
port is unnecessary here).


Here there is something weird: Why is GM Recorder used in place of flute ?
Why English Horn in place of oboe ? Why Piccolo in place of clarinet ? etc...

This looks like a bug somewhere:
   Recorder is #75 in GM and Flute is #74
   English Horn is #70 in GM and Oboe is #69
   Piccolo is #73 in GM and Clarinet is #72
   etc... : The N+1 GM instrument is always used in place of the N.

To fix this, you have to select successively each track, then, in the
Instrument parameter box, to use the Program dropdown to select the correct
instrument.



Step 3 - Why, in your screenshot, is there sometimes no vu-meter visible on
some tracks at a place where this track is making sound ?

Some similar thing is easy to notice looking tracks 10 and 11 (the horns)
while playing bars 84 to 91.

I didn't look at the code and I don't have a certitude, but I presume that
there is a level treshold under which the track number is displayed rather
than the vu-meter.
So when a track is playing with a very low level no vu-meter is
displayed.

An easy way to know if a track is making sound is to mute all the other tracks
(clicking on the blue "LED button" near each track number).
The last RG release provides a solo button (a third "LED" in front of each
track) which make this even simpler.



 Step 4 - Just for the completeness, here is the example I create to have 24
different instruments with Timidity. It works, but is not necessary for the
Beethoven example.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0dGZhdkRXZGRuTEk/view?usp=sharing

To set it up:

- Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
   Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices

- Create a second MIDI device (with the button "Create")

- Connect the first device to a Timidity port

- Connect the second device to another Timidity port

- Open the Banks manager (with the button "Banks...")

- Select the second device and add a bank (button "Add Bank")

- Then press the button "Import..." and select the "GM.rgd" file, press "Open"
and "OK".

- Come back to the main window and, for each track:
   - Pick a midi device in the Track Parameters Box
   - Pick a bank and a program in the Instrument Parameters Box



Hope this helps.

Yves



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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Ted Felix-2
On 08/25/2016 03:28 PM, Yves Guillemot wrote:
> Here there is something weird: Why is GM Recorder used in place of flute ?
> Why English Horn in place of oboe ? Why Piccolo in place of clarinet ? etc...
>
> This looks like a bug somewhere:
>    Recorder is #75 in GM and Flute is #74
>    English Horn is #70 in GM and Oboe is #69
>    Piccolo is #73 in GM and Clarinet is #72
>    etc... : The N+1 GM instrument is always used in place of the N.

   Feels like an off-by-one error in this .mid file.  I'd love to blame
it on me and my cleanup of the MIDI import stuff, but when I open other
.mid files, I get the right instruments.

   Program numbers start at 1 for the user and start at 0 under the
covers, so mistakes are easy to make.  I'm guessing the MIDI file was
generated by a program that didn't subtract one from the program number
before saving.

> Step 3 - Why, in your screenshot, is there sometimes no vu-meter visible on
> some tracks at a place where this track is making sound ?
>
> I didn't look at the code and I don't have a certitude, but I presume that
> there is a level treshold under which the track number is displayed rather
> than the vu-meter.
> So when a track is playing with a very low level no vu-meter is
> displayed.

   Basically, this is correct.  It's not unusual to see only some of the
meters.

> Hope this helps.

   This is good stuff, Yves.  Might want to put it on the wiki.

Ted.

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Abrolag
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 23:24:23 -0400
Ted Felix <[hidden email]> wrote:
>    Program numbers start at 1 for the user and start at 0 under the
> covers, so mistakes are easy to make.  I'm guessing the MIDI file was
> generated by a program that didn't subtract one from the program number
> before saving.

I can never understand why the convention became that program and channel
numbers start from one, but banks and CCs start from zero :(

--
W J G

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
In reply to this post by Yves Guillemot
Wow,
have not checked that out, go for it in the future and will give feedback as first time tutorial tester.
It is great not needing to learn all alone, I dare to express.
Thanks a lot so far.


25.08.2016, 21:28, "Yves Guillemot" <[hidden email]>:

> Le lundi 22 août 2016, 14:42:05 Mario Gummies a écrit :
>>  - is there a way you can prove all 24 instruments do noise all together, and
>>  not that it seems only like that? Could you take my example midi file of
>>  the initial post, so I could verify and learn from it?
>
> I downloaded the midi file and discovered that only 11 voices are needed.
> So it almost works out of the box with any MIDI synthetizer.
> I'll try to explain it below.
>
>>  - is there a way to
>>  document the doings of the configurations: command line scripting would be
>>  ideal for communication imho, because of its secondary use of being able to
>>  be read by third communicated?
>
> Unfortunately there is currently no scripting language embedded in RG.
>
>>  - so given us poor set out to a overall
>>  great ui world: could you sketch the dialog lead, by screen shots or a
>>  pointer to a tutorial?
>
> You can find some documentation in RG Wiki, but it's frequently outdated or
> incomplete.
> http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/doc:manual-en#devices_instruments_and_connections
>
> Step 1 - How to set up (I presume timidity is already working):
>
> - Start RG, then load the midi file:
>    File -> Import -> Import MIDI File...
>
> - Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
>    Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices
>
> - Connect the General Midi Device to a Timidity input:
>    1 - Click on "General Midi Device" in the upper left box to select it
> (well, it should already be selected as it should be the only one device in
> this window).
>    2 - Click on a Timidity input in the upper right box.
>
> You should see something like that:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0X3YwMXBvR0JrR0k/view?usp=sharing
>
> The "General MIDI Device" device is now connected to a timidity port.
>
> - Close the Midi Devices manager dialog.
>
> - The setup is finish and you can press the play button to hear the midi file.
>
> Step 2 - How the MIDI instruments (or "programs") are mapped to the
> tracks:
>
> Here is a snapshot of the main window:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0OTU3S0wzNngyZVk/view?usp=sharing
>
> and a diagram showing the relations between devices, instruments, banks and
> programs:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0RlVHa0F4bFBOZ00/view?usp=sharing
>
> To click on the name in front of a track in the main window selects this
> track.
> Once the track is selected, we can see the associated Midi device (here
> "General MIDI Device") in the Track Parameters box.
> The instrument name and its number are visible under the Midi device name.
> The instruments in the same MIDI device can't be more than 16.
>
> This instrument is an element in the list of the instruments used in the
> composition.
>
> The bank and program in the Instrument Parameters box show what sound this
> logical instrument gives. In the main window snapshot, the track #6 is using
> the program "Piccolo" which has number 73 in the "General MIDI" bank.
>
> Successively looking all the tracks, we see that:
>    - Track 1 is not used
>    - Tracks 2 and 3 have the same instruments (75. Recorder)
>    - Tracks 4 and 5 have the same instrument (70. English Horn)
>    - Tracks 6 and 7 have the same instrument (73. Piccolo)
> etc...
>
> Eventually, instruments beeing shared between tracks, there are 19 tracks, but
> only 11 instruments used.
> As 11 < 16, only one MIDI device is needed (and using more than one Timidity
> port is unnecessary here).
>
> Here there is something weird: Why is GM Recorder used in place of flute ?
> Why English Horn in place of oboe ? Why Piccolo in place of clarinet ? etc...
>
> This looks like a bug somewhere:
>    Recorder is #75 in GM and Flute is #74
>    English Horn is #70 in GM and Oboe is #69
>    Piccolo is #73 in GM and Clarinet is #72
>    etc... : The N+1 GM instrument is always used in place of the N.
>
> To fix this, you have to select successively each track, then, in the
> Instrument parameter box, to use the Program dropdown to select the correct
> instrument.
>
> Step 3 - Why, in your screenshot, is there sometimes no vu-meter visible on
> some tracks at a place where this track is making sound ?
>
> Some similar thing is easy to notice looking tracks 10 and 11 (the horns)
> while playing bars 84 to 91.
>
> I didn't look at the code and I don't have a certitude, but I presume that
> there is a level treshold under which the track number is displayed rather
> than the vu-meter.
> So when a track is playing with a very low level no vu-meter is
> displayed.
>
> An easy way to know if a track is making sound is to mute all the other tracks
> (clicking on the blue "LED button" near each track number).
> The last RG release provides a solo button (a third "LED" in front of each
> track) which make this even simpler.
>
>  Step 4 - Just for the completeness, here is the example I create to have 24
> different instruments with Timidity. It works, but is not necessary for the
> Beethoven example.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0dGZhdkRXZGRuTEk/view?usp=sharing
>
> To set it up:
>
> - Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
>    Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices
>
> - Create a second MIDI device (with the button "Create")
>
> - Connect the first device to a Timidity port
>
> - Connect the second device to another Timidity port
>
> - Open the Banks manager (with the button "Banks...")
>
> - Select the second device and add a bank (button "Add Bank")
>
> - Then press the button "Import..." and select the "GM.rgd" file, press "Open"
> and "OK".
>
> - Come back to the main window and, for each track:
>    - Pick a midi device in the Track Parameters Box
>    - Pick a bank and a program in the Instrument Parameters Box
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Yves
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> [hidden email] - use the link below to unsubscribe
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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
In reply to this post by Yves Guillemot

Hi Yves, hi others ,
-about vu-meter: I got this screenshot with ubuntu 14.04 now I am using 16.04, so maybe this has something to do with "vu-meter?".

-Thanks for your trouble shoot.
After fixing the "midi instrument index shift", it came out, that that was the only hindrance of it all. And now I can hear all instruments (!!!) , seemingly at least. Yes, besides one: the contrabass, even if I put it to program 44 contrabass. I put it to 45 tremolo strings, then it sounded at least.

  -So how about it, should not one _bug report/fix then the original files, if they are against standard? They are, are not they? Here  ist the source http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/117-h.htm and I do not know how common is this "bug", is it? And, yes I am total thus limited newbie both for music and music software.

  -Regarding a rg-tutorial: This turns out to be a tutorial not to "import midis with more then 16 instruments/programs and about the usage of banks", but one about importing "broken, instrument index shifted midi files", maybe this could be of good use, if that is a common, a faq issue. But for a real "more than 16 instrument tutorial use case", one needed such a midi file, does not one?

- Regarding a scripting interface: That should be topic of another thread. But I wish it really bad. How do they call it? "python bindings" from cpp, no?: ya esta. Is there an opinion about it among yous, if this is wished or worth the effort, I would like know anyway.

-Did not follow step4; but downloaded your rg file, which anyway functioned without further configuring. I think I needed the midi file to set it up, right?

All the best.

>>  - is there a way you can prove all 24 instruments do noise all together, and
you gave a method, thanks.

25.08.2016, 21:28, "Yves Guillemot" <[hidden email]>:

> Le lundi 22 août 2016, 14:42:05 Mario Gummies a écrit :
>>  - is there a way you can prove all 24 instruments do noise all together, and
>>  not that it seems only like that? Could you take my example midi file of
>>  the initial post, so I could verify and learn from it?
>
> I downloaded the midi file and discovered that only 11 voices are needed.
> So it almost works out of the box with any MIDI synthetizer.
> I'll try to explain it below.
>
>>  - is there a way to
>>  document the doings of the configurations: command line scripting would be
>>  ideal for communication imho, because of its secondary use of being able to
>>  be read by third communicated?
>
> Unfortunately there is currently no scripting language embedded in RG.
>
>>  - so given us poor set out to a overall
>>  great ui world: could you sketch the dialog lead, by screen shots or a
>>  pointer to a tutorial?
>
> You can find some documentation in RG Wiki, but it's frequently outdated or
> incomplete.
> http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/doc:manual-en#devices_instruments_and_connections
>
> Step 1 - How to set up (I presume timidity is already working):
>
> - Start RG, then load the midi file:
>    File -> Import -> Import MIDI File...
>
> - Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
>    Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices
>
> - Connect the General Midi Device to a Timidity input:
>    1 - Click on "General Midi Device" in the upper left box to select it
> (well, it should already be selected as it should be the only one device in
> this window).
>    2 - Click on a Timidity input in the upper right box.
>
> You should see something like that:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0X3YwMXBvR0JrR0k/view?usp=sharing
>
> The "General MIDI Device" device is now connected to a timidity port.
>
> - Close the Midi Devices manager dialog.
>
> - The setup is finish and you can press the play button to hear the midi file.
>
> Step 2 - How the MIDI instruments (or "programs") are mapped to the
> tracks:
>
> Here is a snapshot of the main window:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0OTU3S0wzNngyZVk/view?usp=sharing
>
> and a diagram showing the relations between devices, instruments, banks and
> programs:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0RlVHa0F4bFBOZ00/view?usp=sharing
>
> To click on the name in front of a track in the main window selects this
> track.
> Once the track is selected, we can see the associated Midi device (here
> "General MIDI Device") in the Track Parameters box.
> The instrument name and its number are visible under the Midi device name.
> The instruments in the same MIDI device can't be more than 16.
>
> This instrument is an element in the list of the instruments used in the
> composition.
>
> The bank and program in the Instrument Parameters box show what sound this
> logical instrument gives. In the main window snapshot, the track #6 is using
> the program "Piccolo" which has number 73 in the "General MIDI" bank.
>
> Successively looking all the tracks, we see that:
>    - Track 1 is not used
>    - Tracks 2 and 3 have the same instruments (75. Recorder)
>    - Tracks 4 and 5 have the same instrument (70. English Horn)
>    - Tracks 6 and 7 have the same instrument (73. Piccolo)
> etc...
>
> Eventually, instruments beeing shared between tracks, there are 19 tracks, but
> only 11 instruments used.
> As 11 < 16, only one MIDI device is needed (and using more than one Timidity
> port is unnecessary here).
>
> Here there is something weird: Why is GM Recorder used in place of flute ?
> Why English Horn in place of oboe ? Why Piccolo in place of clarinet ? etc...
>
> This looks like a bug somewhere:
>    Recorder is #75 in GM and Flute is #74
>    English Horn is #70 in GM and Oboe is #69
>    Piccolo is #73 in GM and Clarinet is #72
>    etc... : The N+1 GM instrument is always used in place of the N.
>
> To fix this, you have to select successively each track, then, in the
> Instrument parameter box, to use the Program dropdown to select the correct
> instrument.
>
> Step 3 - Why, in your screenshot, is there sometimes no vu-meter visible on
> some tracks at a place where this track is making sound ?
>
> Some similar thing is easy to notice looking tracks 10 and 11 (the horns)
> while playing bars 84 to 91.
>
> I didn't look at the code and I don't have a certitude, but I presume that
> there is a level treshold under which the track number is displayed rather
> than the vu-meter.
> So when a track is playing with a very low level no vu-meter is
> displayed.
>
> An easy way to know if a track is making sound is to mute all the other tracks
> (clicking on the blue "LED button" near each track number).
> The last RG release provides a solo button (a third "LED" in front of each
> track) which make this even simpler.
>
>  Step 4 - Just for the completeness, here is the example I create to have 24
> different instruments with Timidity. It works, but is not necessary for the
> Beethoven example.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R8K4qNasR0dGZhdkRXZGRuTEk/view?usp=sharing
>
> To set it up:
>
> - Open the MIDI devices manager dialog:
>    Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices
>
> - Create a second MIDI device (with the button "Create")
>
> - Connect the first device to a Timidity port
>
> - Connect the second device to another Timidity port
>
> - Open the Banks manager (with the button "Banks...")
>
> - Select the second device and add a bank (button "Add Bank")
>
> - Then press the button "Import..." and select the "GM.rgd" file, press "Open"
> and "OK".
>
> - Come back to the main window and, for each track:
>    - Pick a midi device in the Track Parameters Box
>    - Pick a bank and a program in the Instrument Parameters Box
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Yves
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> [hidden email] - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user

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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Yves Guillemot

Le lundi 29 août 2016, 20:55:37 Mario Gummies a écrit :

> Hi Yves, hi others ,

> -about vu-meter: I got this screenshot with ubuntu 14.04 now I am using

> 16.04, so maybe this has something to do with "vu-meter?".

Screen is continuously changing when playing and the vu-meters are hidden during the rests. The time they are hidden/visible is certainly system dependant, so I'm not surprised we don't see exactly the same thing.

 

>

> -Thanks for your trouble shoot.

> After fixing the "midi instrument index shift", it came out, that that was

> the only hindrance of it all. And now I can hear all instruments (!!!) ,

> seemingly at least. Yes, besides one: the contrabass, even if I put it to

> program 44 contrabass. I put it to 45 tremolo strings, then it sounded at

> least.

I can hear the 44 contrabass.

Maybe it's related to the sound font Timidity uses which may depend on the distro.

 

You may give a try to FluidSynth which usually makes a better sound than Timidity:

- Download some GM sound font (http://www.ntonyx.com/soft/32MbGMStereo.sf2

is a good one).

- Start FluidSynth in place of Timidity:

fluidsynth -sij /somewhere/32MbGMStereo.sf2 &

- In RG studio, connect the MIDI device to the fluidsynth port

 

>

> -So how about it, should not one _bug report/fix then the original files,

> if they are against standard? They are, are not they? Here ist the source

> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/117-h.htm and I do not know how

> common is this "bug", is it? And, yes I am total thus limited newbie both

> for music and music software.

The bug probably was in the tools used to create the 117-1.mid file.

It's certainly not so common, here are three other MIDI fifth symphony versions with the right instruments:

http://www.kunstderfuge.com/beethoven/variae.htm

 

 

BTW there is something which looks like a RG bug here:

- Start a new RG session

- Import a MIDI file with various GM instruments

- Play it on some GM synth

==> all the tracks are sounding like piano (i.e. program #1)

 

There is a workaround to hear the correct instruments: save the composition in a RG file then reload it.

 

I'll write a ticket about it.

 

>

> -Regarding a rg-tutorial: This turns out to be a tutorial not to "import

> midis with more then 16 instruments/programs and about the usage of banks",

> but one about importing "broken, instrument index shifted midi files",

> maybe this could be of good use, if that is a common, a faq issue. But for

> a real "more than 16 instrument tutorial use case", one needed such a midi

> file, does not one?

I started writing this stuff following Ted's remark that MIDI only supports 16 channels. I was a bit too quick as I only noticed later that the instruments were not so many.

RG compositions needing more then 16 programs probably are scarce.

Moreover, I presume that a MIDI file can't use more than 16 instruments.

 

>

> - Regarding a scripting interface: That should be topic of another thread.

> But I wish it really bad. How do they call it? "python bindings" from cpp,

> no?: ya esta. Is there an opinion about it among yous, if this is wished or

> worth the effort, I would like know anyway.

That's an old topic:

https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/mailman/rosegarden-user/thread/[hidden email]/

There is a page about it in the wiki:

http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/dev:ramblings_about_scripting

 

I'm afraid RG has even fewer developpers it had when this thread was written and none of them has a lot of time.

 

>

> -Did not follow step4; but downloaded your rg file, which anyway functioned

> without further configuring. I think I needed the midi file to set it up,

> right?

I sent the example as is to show what the MIDI Device Manager and the Program and Bank Manager are like.

I presume to give a step by step description of how to set them up is not really needed.

 

Yves

 


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Re: among 19 tracks rosegarden leaves randomly some without sound

Mario Gummies
Hi Yves,
-I cycle over the fluidsynth thing later and give feedback. About the contrabass thing, too. Same with step 4.
-Thanks for bug reporting. I had this one, too, once a while. And thanks for sharing the work around so far.
I could help gutemberg with a bug nag too, at least will put it in the personal todo list, until ...
-next time I start scripting: I see, it is a question of effort. I dream of a rg macro recorder, pardon, python macro recorder meanwhile. (; ... but ok I_ find, maybe this text processing hacks into the rg status file could be a powerful thought though.
So I understand what I saw, that namely somebody filed a rg feature request on issuing at least the "Play" Button as a script function.
 

Moreover, I presume that a MIDI file can't use more than 16 instruments.

 ex- and imported your 24instruments.rg as midi (came well to that idea) and it showed off at least with 24 tracks. But can be that this limitation is existing, so it is impossible.

Regards

 

30.08.2016, 15:57, "Yves Guillemot" <[hidden email]>:

Le lundi 29 août 2016, 20:55:37 Mario Gummies a écrit :

> Hi Yves, hi others ,

> -about vu-meter: I got this screenshot with ubuntu 14.04 now I am using

> 16.04, so maybe this has something to do with "vu-meter?".

Screen is continuously changing when playing and the vu-meters are hidden during the rests. The time they are hidden/visible is certainly system dependant, so I'm not surprised we don't see exactly the same thing.

 

>

> -Thanks for your trouble shoot.

> After fixing the "midi instrument index shift", it came out, that that was

> the only hindrance of it all. And now I can hear all instruments (!!!) ,

> seemingly at least. Yes, besides one: the contrabass, even if I put it to

> program 44 contrabass. I put it to 45 tremolo strings, then it sounded at

> least.

I can hear the 44 contrabass.

Maybe it's related to the sound font Timidity uses which may depend on the distro.

 

You may give a try to FluidSynth which usually makes a better sound than Timidity:

- Download some GM sound font (http://www.ntonyx.com/soft/32MbGMStereo.sf2

is a good one).

- Start FluidSynth in place of Timidity:

fluidsynth -sij /somewhere/32MbGMStereo.sf2 &

- In RG studio, connect the MIDI device to the fluidsynth port

 

>

> -So how about it, should not one _bug report/fix then the original files,

> if they are against standard? They are, are not they? Here ist the source

> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/117/117-h/117-h.htm and I do not know how

> common is this "bug", is it? And, yes I am total thus limited newbie both

> for music and music software.

The bug probably was in the tools used to create the 117-1.mid file.

It's certainly not so common, here are three other MIDI fifth symphony versions with the right instruments:

http://www.kunstderfuge.com/beethoven/variae.htm

 

 

BTW there is something which looks like a RG bug here:

- Start a new RG session

- Import a MIDI file with various GM instruments

- Play it on some GM synth

==> all the tracks are sounding like piano (i.e. program #1)

 

There is a workaround to hear the correct instruments: save the composition in a RG file then reload it.

 

I'll write a ticket about it.

 

>

> -Regarding a rg-tutorial: This turns out to be a tutorial not to "import

> midis with more then 16 instruments/programs and about the usage of banks",

> but one about importing "broken, instrument index shifted midi files",

> maybe this could be of good use, if that is a common, a faq issue. But for

> a real "more than 16 instrument tutorial use case", one needed such a midi

> file, does not one?

I started writing this stuff following Ted's remark that MIDI only supports 16 channels. I was a bit too quick as I only noticed later that the instruments were not so many.

RG compositions needing more then 16 programs probably are scarce.

Moreover, I presume that a MIDI file can't use more than 16 instruments.

 

>

> - Regarding a scripting interface: That should be topic of another thread.

> But I wish it really bad. How do they call it? "python bindings" from cpp,

> no?: ya esta. Is there an opinion about it among yous, if this is wished or

> worth the effort, I would like know anyway.

That's an old topic:

https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/mailman/rosegarden-user/thread/45FEAA13.5020800@.../

There is a page about it in the wiki:

http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/dev:ramblings_about_scripting

 

I'm afraid RG has even fewer developpers it had when this thread was written and none of them has a lot of time.

 

>

> -Did not follow step4; but downloaded your rg file, which anyway functioned

> without further configuring. I think I needed the midi file to set it up,

> right?

I sent the example as is to show what the MIDI Device Manager and the Program and Bank Manager are like.

I presume to give a step by step description of how to set them up is not really needed.

 

Yves

 

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