TPB Preset Field

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TPB Preset Field

Ted Felix-2
   I've been cleaning up TrackParameterBox and I'm looking right now at
the "Preset" field in the "Create segments with" section.  This field is
enabled/disabled to indicate changes have been made.  However, on my
system, the difference between enabled and disabled is very subtle.  So,
I was thinking that we should do something different.

   Here are my thoughts.

1. Rename this field from "Preset" to "Label".  After all, it's used
    to set the Segment label.

2. Let the user edit this field so they can pick whatever they want
    for the Segment labels.

3. Save this field to the .rg file so the user can depend on it.
    (Currently it is lost across loads.)

4. Replace it with the name of the preset when a preset is loaded with
    the Load button.  (This is what it does already, so no change.)

5. If the user changes any of the other fields (e.g. pitch), leave the
    label field alone.  It's up to the user to adjust as needed.
    (Currently we disable the field to give it a different appearance.
    Too subtle for me.)

   This gives the user more control over the field and to me makes this
a more useful feature.  Before I invest the time, is there anything I'm
missing?

Ted.

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Re: TPB Preset Field

Aere Greenway-2
On 07/13/2016 07:02 AM, Ted Felix wrote:

>     I've been cleaning up TrackParameterBox and I'm looking right now at
> the "Preset" field in the "Create segments with" section.  This field is
> enabled/disabled to indicate changes have been made.  However, on my
> system, the difference between enabled and disabled is very subtle.  So,
> I was thinking that we should do something different.
>
>     Here are my thoughts.
>
> 1. Rename this field from "Preset" to "Label".  After all, it's used
>      to set the Segment label.
>
> 2. Let the user edit this field so they can pick whatever they want
>      for the Segment labels.
>
> 3. Save this field to the .rg file so the user can depend on it.
>      (Currently it is lost across loads.)
>
> 4. Replace it with the name of the preset when a preset is loaded with
>      the Load button.  (This is what it does already, so no change.)
>
> 5. If the user changes any of the other fields (e.g. pitch), leave the
>      label field alone.  It's up to the user to adjust as needed.
>      (Currently we disable the field to give it a different appearance.
>      Too subtle for me.)
>
>     This gives the user more control over the field and to me makes this
> a more useful feature.  Before I invest the time, is there anything I'm
> missing?
>
> Ted.
>
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Ted:

The main thing I always do in a new piece, is set the track name (by
double-clicking on it).

It would be nice, when the dialog box comes up from double-clicking on
the track name, if whatever text is already there would be selected, so
all the user has to do is start typing the new name (rather than having
to first select everything already there).

--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: TPB Preset Field

D. Michael McIntyre-3
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2
On 07/13/2016 09:02 AM, Ted Felix wrote:

>     This gives the user more control over the field and to me makes this
> a more useful feature.  Before I invest the time, is there anything I'm
> missing?

Change "Preset" to "Label" and change "Load" to "Preset" if you want to
make it possible to enter arbitrary strings here.  In my opinion, anyone
wishing to do this is missing the entire point.  Why would you want to
enter that crap manually when we have an entire fricking encyclopedia of
arranging built right into Rosegarden?

Whatever.  People are strange.  Making the proposed string changes would
satisfy my interest in the matter.

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: TPB Preset Field

D. Michael McIntyre-3
In reply to this post by Aere Greenway-2
On 07/13/2016 01:26 PM, Aere Greenway wrote:

> It would be nice, when the dialog box comes up from double-clicking on
> the track name, if whatever text is already there would be selected, so
> all the user has to do is start typing the new name (rather than having
> to first select everything already there).

That is already supposed to be the case, Aere.  It works here.  Double
click, start typing, new string replaces the old string.

It must be one of those weird desktop-dependent things.
--
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Re: TPB Preset Field

Aere Greenway-2
On 07/13/2016 01:35 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> On 07/13/2016 01:26 PM, Aere Greenway wrote:
>
>> It would be nice, when the dialog box comes up from double-clicking on
>> the track name, if whatever text is already there would be selected, so
>> all the user has to do is start typing the new name (rather than having
>> to first select everything already there).
> That is already supposed to be the case, Aere.  It works here.  Double
> click, start typing, new string replaces the old string.
>
> It must be one of those weird desktop-dependent things.
More likely, it is because I'm using my production system, which is
still on Lubuntu 14.04, and doesn't use the latest version of Rosegarden.

I should have tried in one of my test systems on 16.04.

--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: TPB Preset Field

D. Michael McIntyre-3
On 07/13/2016 05:45 PM, Aere Greenway wrote:

> More likely, it is because I'm using my production system, which is
> still on Lubuntu 14.04, and doesn't use the latest version of Rosegarden.

It could be a Qt version thing, come to think of it.  I'm building and
testing with Qt5 now, and have been for some time.  Building with either
Qt4 or Qt5 should be possible, but there can be minor differences.  I'm
not curious enough to go install all the library stuff for the other Qt
version to try it out.

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Re: TPB Preset Field

Aere Greenway-2
On 07/13/2016 04:12 PM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> On 07/13/2016 05:45 PM, Aere Greenway wrote:
>
>> More likely, it is because I'm using my production system, which is
>> still on Lubuntu 14.04, and doesn't use the latest version of
>> Rosegarden.
>
> It could be a Qt version thing, come to think of it.  I'm building and
> testing with Qt5 now, and have been for some time.  Building with
> either Qt4 or Qt5 should be possible, but there can be minor
> differences.  I'm not curious enough to go install all the library
> stuff for the other Qt version to try it out.
>
I just tried it on my UbuntuGnome 16.04 test system, and it works as you
said, initially selecting the text already there.

The Rosgarden version used in Ubuntu 16.04 is "15.12" (as I remember).

There is a strange thing about that version of Rosegarden.

In (probably) all of my Ubuntu 16.04 variant test systems, Rosegarden
crashed the first time I tried to open a '.rg' file, but never thereafter.

I have no idea why it would crash the first time, and never again.

--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: TPB Preset Field

Yves Guillemot
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2
Le mercredi 13 juillet 2016, 09:02:14 Ted Felix a écrit :
>    I've been cleaning up TrackParameterBox and I'm looking right now at
> the "Preset" field in the "Create segments with" section.  This field is
> enabled/disabled to indicate changes have been made.  However, on my
> system, the difference between enabled and disabled is very subtle.  So,
> I was thinking that we should do something different.

It's so subtle that I never noticed this field may be enabled or disabled.

>
>    Here are my thoughts.
>
> 1. Rename this field from "Preset" to "Label".  After all, it's used
>     to set the Segment label.
>
> 2. Let the user edit this field so they can pick whatever they want
>     for the Segment labels.

I was taken this field as the name of the preset rather than the preset of the
segment label. When there is no preset, the segment label comes from the
instrument/program.

Is a preset of the label really useful ?
If there are several segments on the track, the user probably wants a different
label for each segment.
If there is only one segment, directly writing its label is as simple as
writing a preset value first.

>
> 3. Save this field to the .rg file so the user can depend on it.
>     (Currently it is lost across loads.)

Indeed this field is lost although the preset values are saved.
It would be fine to save it to remember what these values are.

>
> 4. Replace it with the name of the preset when a preset is loaded with
>     the Load button.  (This is what it does already, so no change.)
>
> 5. If the user changes any of the other fields (e.g. pitch), leave the
>     label field alone.  It's up to the user to adjust as needed.
>     (Currently we disable the field to give it a different appearance.
>     Too subtle for me.)

I don't see the point to change the name of an existing preset.
This field might be editable only after the user changed some preset value.
Moreover the original preset name should be automatically altered (postfixed ?)
as soon as the change is done.

>
>    This gives the user more control over the field and to me makes this
> a more useful feature.  Before I invest the time, is there anything I'm
> missing?

After a preset is loaded there is currently no easy way to remove it and come
back to the default values.

The Clef and transpose parameters are stored in the created segment and
memorized with it.
The lowest and highest pitches are stored in the segment, but not memorized
(they are lost when the file is saved then restored). Currently these
parameters are only usable in the session where the segment is created.

If a segment is created on one track then moved on another track, its lowest
and highest pitches are kept from its creation track, which is probably not
that the users want (these pitches are related to the instrument which comes
from the track).
The lowest/highest playable pitch attributes might be removed from the segment
and the same already existing attributes from the track used instead.

I wonder about the transpose parameter which is frequently related to the
instrument. Should not it be a track parameter rather a segment one ?
Or maybe the final transpose should be the sum of two parameters, one from the
track and one from the segment ?

Yves


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Re: TPB Preset Field

Aere Greenway-2
On 07/14/2016 02:20 AM, Yves Guillemot wrote:
> Is a preset of the label really useful ?
> If there are several segments on the track, the user probably wants a different
> label for each segment.
> If there is only one segment, directly writing its label is as simple as
> writing a preset value first.
You can re-label a selected segment, regardless the track name.

You select a particular segment, right-click on it, and choose the
pop-up menu entry for labeling (or re-labeling) it.

That probably means each segment can have a different label.

I like the way segments in a track inherit the track label.

--
Sincerely,
Aere


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Re: TPB Preset Field

D. Michael McIntyre-3
In reply to this post by Yves Guillemot
On 07/14/2016 04:20 AM, Yves Guillemot wrote:

> Is a preset of the label really useful ?

Honestly, I don't even remember writing it that way, and I had to look.
  So no, it's not that useful.

> Indeed this field is lost although the preset values are saved.
> It would be fine to save it to remember what these values are.

I surely meant to save and restore those values, and just missed something.

> Moreover the original preset name should be automatically altered (postfixed ?)
> as soon as the change is done.

Postfix it with "custom" maybe.

> After a preset is loaded there is currently no easy way to remove it and come
> back to the default values.

True.

> The Clef and transpose parameters are stored in the created segment and
> memorized with it.

The clef parameter causes the generation of a clef, and it isn't really
a parameter as such.

> The lowest and highest pitches are stored in the segment, but not memorized
> (they are lost when the file is saved then restored). Currently these
> parameters are only usable in the session where the segment is created.

That was an oversight too.

> If a segment is created on one track then moved on another track, its lowest
> and highest pitches are kept from its creation track, which is probably not
> that the users want (these pitches are related to the instrument which comes
> from the track).

That might be why I attached the label from the preset to the segment.
A Bb trumpet segment is still -2 low F# to high C if you drop the
segment on an Eb saxophone track.  You have to fix it manually.

This is one of those things that isn't quite as nice as it should be,
but very few people ever use this, and doing it up really nice would be
very expensive.  Plus there are a lot of behavioral questions to debate.
  Should it change this when you do that, and what about the other?
Instead of getting into that, I just left it up to the user to sync this
stuff manually.

I think segment symlinks were theoretically supposed to help with this
kind of thing, symlink to the trumpet segment and it sounds in a
different transpose on a sax track.  We talked about that a lot, but I
don't think the guy ever got it working, and I know I never did.  Again,
it can make your head hurt just trying to decide what to do when.

> The lowest/highest playable pitch attributes might be removed from the segment
> and the same already existing attributes from the track used instead.

Semantically, the "Create segments with" parameters are only supposed to
change things you have yet to create, so dropping a segment here and
having it adopt things from here breaks with that convention.  If you
think about it, it is also pretty complicated to figure out how to
transform the thing automatically, and this is best left up to the user.
  You drop a trumpet segment onto a contrabass trombone track and
another copy on a baritone saxophone track.  Now what?  Best to let the
user deal with this manually.

> I wonder about the transpose parameter which is frequently related to the
> instrument. Should not it be a track parameter rather a segment one ?
> Or maybe the final transpose should be the sum of two parameters, one from the
> track and one from the segment ?

Historical legacy and backwards compatibility.  Segment parameters
existed before there were track parameters, otherwise transpose probably
would have ended up with track parameters.

I wouldn't be very interested in changing that now.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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