Play function doesn't work anymore

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Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
Hi.
I use Rosegarden 16.06 in PCLinuxOS. It always has been fine. But after some recent updates on my system the play function on Rosegarden doesn't work anymore.
No matter if I'm using alsa or jack to make connections, neither if I'm using timdity or qsynth as output. I can hear the notes when I type them, what shows that the connection has been done. But when I try to play any file it behaves as it is playing something, the new, open and delete track button get gray, but the cursor doesn't move and no sound is played. I can move the cursor using page up ann page down but no sound is played. It happens at any of the windows of Rosegarden, in the main window, notation editor, matrix editor etc. No matter if I click on the play button or if I press ctrl+Enter or only the small right enter key, the result is the same: it prepares to play the file but cursor doesn't move and doesn't play anything at all. Furthermore it happens with any file. Even old files that played right.
Can anyone help me, please?

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

D. Michael McIntyre-3
On 10/21/2016 07:37 PM, Fernando A. Martin wrote:

> the cursor doesn't move and no sound is played.

This is usually a bad sequencer timing source.

Edit -> Preferences -> MIDI -> General -> Sequencer Timing Source

It defaults to auto, which works for most users.  If auto does not work,
go down the list of PCM- timers until you find one that works.

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
In reply to this post by Fernando A. Martin
Good and bad news:
Some minutes after writing this message I recalled that recently I updated my linux kernel to 4.8.3. Then I removed kernel 4.8.3 and went back to kernel 4.7.5. Now Rosegarden is able to play correctly again.
It's nice to have things working again but it seems that something in the newest linux kernels are breaking the play function of rosegarden. Can anyone else test this? If it's true, can developers do something to make rosegarden play function work with new linux kernels?
Thanks.



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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Abrolag
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:09:21 -0200
"Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good and bad news:
> Some minutes after writing this message I recalled that recently I updated
> my linux kernel to 4.8.3. Then I removed kernel 4.8.3 and went back to
> kernel 4.7.5. Now Rosegarden is able to play correctly again.
> It's nice to have things working again but it seems that something in the
> newest linux kernels are breaking the play function of rosegarden. Can
> anyone else test this? If it's true, can developers do something to make
> rosegarden play function work with new linux kernels?
> Thanks.

Agree with Michael. This is almost certainly the timer source. I find the most
reliable (and accurate) is the soundcard one. Look for something like
"PCM playback 0-0-0"

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
I'm using rosegarden + alsa + timidity. I tried all the PCM... options and the cursor moves during playback but no sound is played (except the first note of the measure where the cursor was when I hit play).
So the PCM... options solve the issue that the cursor doesn't move during playback but create another that is the issue that the cursor moves but no sound is played.

2016-10-22 4:42 GMT-02:00 Abrolag <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:09:21 -0200
"Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good and bad news:
> Some minutes after writing this message I recalled that recently I updated
> my linux kernel to 4.8.3. Then I removed kernel 4.8.3 and went back to
> kernel 4.7.5. Now Rosegarden is able to play correctly again.
> It's nice to have things working again but it seems that something in the
> newest linux kernels are breaking the play function of rosegarden. Can
> anyone else test this? If it's true, can developers do something to make
> rosegarden play function work with new linux kernels?
> Thanks.

Agree with Michael. This is almost certainly the timer source. I find the most
reliable (and accurate) is the soundcard one. Look for something like
"PCM playback 0-0-0"

--
W J G

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
By now I'm using kernel 4.7.5 with no problems. Has anyone else tried rosegarden with kernel 4.8.2? Has had the same issue?
What shall we do if all new kernels bring this same issue?

2016-10-22 10:02 GMT-02:00 Fernando A. Martin <[hidden email]>:
I'm using rosegarden + alsa + timidity. I tried all the PCM... options and the cursor moves during playback but no sound is played (except the first note of the measure where the cursor was when I hit play).
So the PCM... options solve the issue that the cursor doesn't move during playback but create another that is the issue that the cursor moves but no sound is played.

2016-10-22 4:42 GMT-02:00 Abrolag <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:09:21 -0200
"Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good and bad news:
> Some minutes after writing this message I recalled that recently I updated
> my linux kernel to 4.8.3. Then I removed kernel 4.8.3 and went back to
> kernel 4.7.5. Now Rosegarden is able to play correctly again.
> It's nice to have things working again but it seems that something in the
> newest linux kernels are breaking the play function of rosegarden. Can
> anyone else test this? If it's true, can developers do something to make
> rosegarden play function work with new linux kernels?
> Thanks.

Agree with Michael. This is almost certainly the timer source. I find the most
reliable (and accurate) is the soundcard one. Look for something like
"PCM playback 0-0-0"

--
W J G

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Yves Guillemot
In reply to this post by Fernando A. Martin
Le vendredi 21 octobre 2016, 22:09:21 Fernando A. Martin a écrit :
> Some minutes after writing this message I recalled that recently I updated
> my linux kernel to 4.8.3. Then I removed kernel 4.8.3 and went back to
> kernel 4.7.5. Now Rosegarden is able to play correctly again.
> It's nice to have things working again but it seems that something in the
> newest linux kernels are breaking the play function of rosegarden. Can
> anyone else test this?

My distro is currently only using kernel 4.4.26.
I compiled 4.8.3 from source and just boot it without modifying anything else.

I confirm that play doesn't work with timer -> "(auto)" which defaults to
"system timer".

I tried timer -> "HR timer" which freezed the whole system.

Then timer -> "PCM playback 0-0-0" which works.


> If it's true, can developers do something to make
> rosegarden play function work with new linux kernels?

This will become necessary when this kernel version will spread.
I currently don't have any clue as up to now I never looked at the timer
implementation.


Yves


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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Yves Guillemot
In reply to this post by Fernando A. Martin
Le samedi 22 octobre 2016, 10:02:10 Fernando A. Martin a écrit :
> I'm using rosegarden + alsa + timidity. I tried all the PCM... options and
> the cursor moves during playback but no sound is played (except the first
> note of the measure where the cursor was when I hit play).
> So the PCM... options solve the issue that the cursor doesn't move during
> playback but create another that is the issue that the cursor moves but no
> sound is played.

I confirm the issue with kernel 4.8.3.
Notes are played while entered in the notation editor, but there is no more
sound while playing the composition.

This is noticeable using timidity, fluidsynth or even an external h/w midi
synth.

I presume this is coming from some change in the alsa sequencer.

Yves


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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Abrolag
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 15:40:07 +0200
Yves Guillemot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le samedi 22 octobre 2016, 10:02:10 Fernando A. Martin a écrit :
> > I'm using rosegarden + alsa + timidity. I tried all the PCM... options and
> > the cursor moves during playback but no sound is played (except the first
> > note of the measure where the cursor was when I hit play).
> > So the PCM... options solve the issue that the cursor doesn't move during
> > playback but create another that is the issue that the cursor moves but no
> > sound is played.  
>
> I confirm the issue with kernel 4.8.3.
> Notes are played while entered in the notation editor, but there is no more
> sound while playing the composition.
>
> This is noticeable using timidity, fluidsynth or even an external h/w midi
> synth.
>
> I presume this is coming from some change in the alsa sequencer.
>
> Yves

I can't see it being an ALSA issue if the soundcard timer works OK.

A quick search online reveals that there have been changes in the kernel
timers, and there may be an outstanding bug.

Personally I'm sticking with 4.6.4 as this is the last one debian supplied
with an RT alternative (and I'm too lazy to recompile it myself).

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Yves Guillemot
Le samedi 22 octobre 2016, 15:25:46 Abrolag a écrit :
> I can't see it being an ALSA issue if the soundcard timer works OK.
>
> A quick search online reveals that there have been changes in the kernel
> timers, and there may be an outstanding bug.

I said this only because I think RG is interfaced to the synth through the
ALSA seq, but I really don't know where is the bug.

> Personally I'm sticking with 4.6.4 as this is the last one debian supplied
> with an RT alternative (and I'm too lazy to recompile it myself).

I compiled this new kernel only to reproduce the Fernando's problem.
It takes some time to compile, but only needs to type a few commands.

I usually keep the kernels supplied with my distro. They are older, but they
do the job and are already debugged.

Yves


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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
Here's another user who confirmed the problem.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,139435.0.html
I'm going to keep kernel 4.7.5 for a longer time until some solution comes.
Please, dear developers, can you check the codes of the new kernels to see what happened and if it's possible to implement some solution in the next versions of Rosegarden?
Thank you very much.

2016-10-22 14:44 GMT-02:00 Yves Guillemot <[hidden email]>:
Le samedi 22 octobre 2016, 15:25:46 Abrolag a écrit :
> I can't see it being an ALSA issue if the soundcard timer works OK.
>
> A quick search online reveals that there have been changes in the kernel
> timers, and there may be an outstanding bug.

I said this only because I think RG is interfaced to the synth through the
ALSA seq, but I really don't know where is the bug.

> Personally I'm sticking with 4.6.4 as this is the last one debian supplied
> with an RT alternative (and I'm too lazy to recompile it myself).

I compiled this new kernel only to reproduce the Fernando's problem.
It takes some time to compile, but only needs to type a few commands.

I usually keep the kernels supplied with my distro. They are older, but they
do the job and are already debugged.

Yves


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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

jpm
In reply to this post by Fernando A. Martin
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 21:37:38 -0200
"Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:

If anyone's posted an update on this, I've missed it.
I've upgraded the kernel to 4.8.7 and this appears to have fixed
the regressions.  Rosegarden is happy now.

The changelog for 4.8.7 includes the following:

"The recent rewrite of the sequencer time accounting using timespec64
 in the commit [3915bf294652: ALSA: seq_timer: use monotonic times
 internally] introduced a bad regression.  Namely, the time reported
 back doesn't increase but goes back and forth.
   
  The culprit was obvious: the delta is stored to the result (cur_time =
  delta), instead of adding the delta (cur_time += delta)!

  Let's fix it."


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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Abrolag
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 19:00:13 +0000
"J.P. Morris" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 21:37:38 -0200
> "Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If anyone's posted an update on this, I've missed it.
> I've upgraded the kernel to 4.8.7 and this appears to have fixed
> the regressions.  Rosegarden is happy now.
>
> The changelog for 4.8.7 includes the following:
>
> "The recent rewrite of the sequencer time accounting using timespec64
>  in the commit [3915bf294652: ALSA: seq_timer: use monotonic times
>  internally] introduced a bad regression.  Namely, the time reported
>  back doesn't increase but goes back and forth.
>    
>   The culprit was obvious: the delta is stored to the result (cur_time =
>   delta), instead of adding the delta (cur_time += delta)!
>
>   Let's fix it."


It's almost reassuring that the 'big boys' can make such an obvious typo.

I needed that :¬)

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Re: Play function doesn't work anymore

Fernando A. Martin
I tested kernel 4.8.8 and now it's working again.

2016-11-12 17:57 GMT-02:00 Abrolag <[hidden email]>:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 19:00:13 +0000
"J.P. Morris" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 21:37:38 -0200
> "Fernando A. Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If anyone's posted an update on this, I've missed it.
> I've upgraded the kernel to 4.8.7 and this appears to have fixed
> the regressions.  Rosegarden is happy now.
>
> The changelog for 4.8.7 includes the following:
>
> "The recent rewrite of the sequencer time accounting using timespec64
>  in the commit [3915bf294652: ALSA: seq_timer: use monotonic times
>  internally] introduced a bad regression.  Namely, the time reported
>  back doesn't increase but goes back and forth.
>
>   The culprit was obvious: the delta is stored to the result (cur_time =
>   delta), instead of adding the delta (cur_time += delta)!
>
>   Let's fix it."


It's almost reassuring that the 'big boys' can make such an obvious typo.

I needed that :¬)

--
W J G

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