BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

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BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Silas Mortimer
I have a song that begins with an intro that I wrote in Rosegarden,
then transitions to a guitar/bass/drum-based song. I'm making the drum
line in Hydrogen.

I've run into a little trouble in trying to match the rhythm of the
song to the one in the intro. What I've found: 180 BPM in Hydrogen is
*not* 180 BPM in Rosegarden. To get a more or less similar beat
setting, I have Rosegarden set up at 180 BPM, while Hydrogen is down
to 120 BPM. That is as close as I can come to getting them the same
speed.

This is particularly a problem in that I'd like to set them up to run
together (leaving blank patterns in Hydrogen while the part in
Rosegarden plays), but when I try to set Rosegarden's timing to
JACK-determined, it goes all wonky.

What's going on? Can I change this behavior? Am I doing it wrong? (I
suspect it's that last one.)

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Ted Felix-2
On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
> To get a more or less similar beat
> setting, I have Rosegarden set up at 180 BPM, while Hydrogen is down
> to 120 BPM.

   That's a ratio of 2/3.  Check the time signatures.  Are they the same?

Ted.

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Abrolag
In reply to this post by Silas Mortimer
On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 08:19:21 -0500
Silas Mortimer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a song that begins with an intro that I wrote in Rosegarden,
> then transitions to a guitar/bass/drum-based song. I'm making the drum
> line in Hydrogen.
>
> I've run into a little trouble in trying to match the rhythm of the
> song to the one in the intro. What I've found: 180 BPM in Hydrogen is
> *not* 180 BPM in Rosegarden. To get a more or less similar beat
> setting, I have Rosegarden set up at 180 BPM, while Hydrogen is down
> to 120 BPM. That is as close as I can come to getting them the same
> speed.
>
> This is particularly a problem in that I'd like to set them up to run
> together (leaving blank patterns in Hydrogen while the part in
> Rosegarden plays), but when I try to set Rosegarden's timing to
> JACK-determined, it goes all wonky.
>
> What's going on? Can I change this behavior? Am I doing it wrong? (I
> suspect it's that last one.)

At a guess, maybe they are using different timing sources.

--
W J G

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Ted Felix-2
In reply to this post by Silas Mortimer
On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
> This is particularly a problem in that I'd like to set them up to run
> together (leaving blank patterns in Hydrogen while the part in
> Rosegarden plays), but when I try to set Rosegarden's timing to
> JACK-determined, it goes all wonky.

   I'm not sure that synchronizing Hydrogen and Rosegarden is going to
work very well.  It might be better to use Hydrogen as a MIDI synth and
have Rosegarden do the sequencing.  Assuming this is possible.

Ted.

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Silas Mortimer
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Ted Felix <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>    That's a ratio of 2/3.  Check the time signatures.  Are they the same?

I just looked up time signatures in Hydrogen and I'm going to have to
look at it for a while to understand it, I think. Thanks for the tip.

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

D. Michael McIntyre-3
In reply to this post by Silas Mortimer
On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
> I have a song that begins with an intro that I wrote in Rosegarden,
> then transitions to a guitar/bass/drum-based song. I'm making the drum
> line in Hydrogen.

I hadn't experimented with any of that in years, and I just took a crash
refresher course.

The best I can do is check [x] Use JACK Transport on the general options
configuration page.  That gets Rosegarden and Hydrogen stopping and
starting in sync, but from there it's up to their respective clocks, and
the clocks drift.

I couldn't repeat your gross timing discrepancy between the
applications, but I couldn't really work out an effective way to use
both of these sequencers at the same time either.

This is why I used to do the sequencing in Rosegarden, and play Hydrogen
like any other soft synth.  Looking at it with fresh eyes, it still
seems to be the best I can do.

It used to be possible to import Hydrogen song files directly into
Rosegarden for this purpose.  It never quite worked reliably, and
eventually it outright broke.  The code got orphaned years ago.  If
somebody took a notion, they could probably update it to the latest
Hydrogen file format and resurrect that bit of functionality.

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Silas Mortimer
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:45 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I couldn't repeat your gross timing discrepancy between the
> applications, but I couldn't really work out an effective way to use
> both of these sequencers at the same time either.

I kind of figured that the discrepancy in mine probably *should* be
something like one doubled on the other (due to just how I was using
the pattern editor, if I'm correct), like the one being 120 and the
other being 240, but that I'm a little off somehow. I think that
explains how big the discrepancy looks.

I've thought of a way to deal with it once I'm ready to record (or
perform, in a pinch), though. I'll let Rosegarden record its track(s)
in Ardour, then begin every other track (including Hydrogen)
separately after that.

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

ram-19
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2
> On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
>> This is particularly a problem in that I'd like to set them up to run
>> together (leaving blank patterns in Hydrogen while the part in
>> Rosegarden plays), but when I try to set Rosegarden's timing to
>> JACK-determined, it goes all wonky.
>
>    I'm not sure that synchronizing Hydrogen and Rosegarden is going to
> work very well.  It might be better to use Hydrogen as a MIDI synth and
> have Rosegarden do the sequencing.  Assuming this is possible.
>
> Ted.
>

Hydrogen works real well as a MIDI synth to be played by RoseGarden, at
least when using Jack/NetJack.  I do this all the time.  For larger
percussion sections I find it easier to use RoseGarden for the sequencing
than Hydrogen's native interface.

RAM




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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

David Tisdell
In reply to this post by Ted Felix-2
Definitely possible. I do this all the time. I found that better than using the JACK play tools for keeping everything in sync.

Dave

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Ted Felix <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/18/2016 09:19 AM, Silas Mortimer wrote:
> This is particularly a problem in that I'd like to set them up to run
> together (leaving blank patterns in Hydrogen while the part in
> Rosegarden plays), but when I try to set Rosegarden's timing to
> JACK-determined, it goes all wonky.

   I'm not sure that synchronizing Hydrogen and Rosegarden is going to
work very well.  It might be better to use Hydrogen as a MIDI synth and
have Rosegarden do the sequencing.  Assuming this is possible.

Ted.

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Lorenzo Sutton
In reply to this post by Silas Mortimer


On 18/04/2016 20:49, Silas Mortimer wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:45 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I couldn't repeat your gross timing discrepancy between the
>> applications, but I couldn't really work out an effective way to use
>> both of these sequencers at the same time either.
>
> I kind of figured that the discrepancy in mine probably *should* be
> something like one doubled on the other (due to just how I was using
> the pattern editor, if I'm correct)

One test to do would be:

- make sure Rosegarden and Jack are using Jack Transport and the BPM and
meter are the same (I think both default to 120 BPM and 4/4 so starting
from scratch should get you going).
- In hydrogen put one note at the very beginning of the pattern (bar?)
- In Rosegarden create a 1 bar segment and select repeat (checkbox in
the left pane)
- In Rosegarden open the matrix editor and place only one note at the
very beginning of the bar
- Ideally the notes in Hydrogen and in RG would have different timbre
- hit Play in Rosegarden.

The two notes should be perfectly synchronised. :-)

If this works then the timing discrepancy depends on the actual
notes/rhythms you are entering. If it doesn't it would indeed show some
sort of synchronisation problem.

As a side note on Jack Transport:
One thing I have noticed with Rosegarden and Jack Transport (but with
Ardour) is that to play well Ardour must be set to 'jack slave' (i.e. in
Ardour deselect "JACK Time Master") *and* transport operations (play,
stop, etc.) *must* always be done in Rosegarden. I'm not sure though
that this is really relevant to Rosegaden <-> Hydrogen interaction.

Lorenzo

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Re: BPM: Rosegarden vs. Hydrogen

Silas Mortimer
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:16 AM, Lorenzo Sutton
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> One test to do would be:
>
> - make sure Rosegarden and Jack are using Jack Transport and the BPM and
> meter are the same (I think both default to 120 BPM and 4/4 so starting
> from scratch should get you going).
> - In hydrogen put one note at the very beginning of the pattern (bar?)
> - In Rosegarden create a 1 bar segment and select repeat (checkbox in
> the left pane)
> - In Rosegarden open the matrix editor and place only one note at the
> very beginning of the bar
> - Ideally the notes in Hydrogen and in RG would have different timbre
> - hit Play in Rosegarden.
>
> The two notes should be perfectly synchronised. :-)
>
> If this works then the timing discrepancy depends on the actual
> notes/rhythms you are entering. If it doesn't it would indeed show some
> sort of synchronisation problem.
>
> As a side note on Jack Transport:
> One thing I have noticed with Rosegarden and Jack Transport (but with
> Ardour) is that to play well Ardour must be set to 'jack slave' (i.e. in
> Ardour deselect "JACK Time Master") *and* transport operations (play,
> stop, etc.) *must* always be done in Rosegarden. I'm not sure though
> that this is really relevant to Rosegaden <-> Hydrogen interaction.
>
> Lorenzo

Wow. I will definitely try that. And thanks for the note about Ardour,
since I haven't used RG with Ardour yet.

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